Questions & Answers

** New Question(s) and Answer(s) Added:   December 2009

When was the first railway built in Canada and where?

Railway lines were constructed and operated as early as the beginning of the 1800s. However, these were strictly for mining operations and were in Nova Scotia. The first railway line built to handle freight and passengers was the Champlain and St. Lawrence Railroad opened in 1836. The 23 km (14 mile) railway ran between Laprairie Quebec south of Montreal to St Johns (now Saint-Jean) on the Richelieu River. It's main purpose was to portage passengers and freight between waterways rather than provide transportation between communities.

How many miles of track are there in Canada?

According to the Railway Association of Canada, there are 61,000km (38,000 miles) of mainline track in the country. This amount excludes tracks for sidings and railway yards and industrial operations at factories etc.

What is the difference between a handling line, switch line and short line.   (Rosanna Lam, Vancouver, BC.)

Short Line (also the term "Regional Railroad"): According to the American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association (www.aslrra.org) these railways are those that have revenues of less than $20 million, U.S.

Switch Line: The common term is "Switching and Terminal Railways" According to the Association of American Railroads, this refers to railways that provide only switching and/or terminal services and don't have point-to-point transportation (ie: service from one city to another).

Handling Line: This term is used by the Norfolk Southern Railroad in the U.S. to identify regional or shortline railroads that it has agreements with to pick up cars from or deliver cars to the "Handling Line for its" customers.

Can you tell me the locations of ex-Canadian Pacific Railway steam locomotives, Jubilee 2929 and 2928 (4-4-4 type) I have heard rumours that either 2929 has been removed from Steamtown in Pennsylvania or 2928 from Delson near Montreal?   Richard Curran, New Brunswick.

Our sources advise us that there are plans to move 2929 out of Scranton PA to the Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook BC but these plans have been around for about two years. There is no definite date for the move, but when we are made aware of it, the news will appear in the Society's magazine, Branchline.

Where is ex-CP 4-6-2 steam locomotive 1201 and are there any plans for it?   (several inquiries)

1201, owned by the Canada Science and Technology Museum, is stored in a warehouse behind the Museum in Ottawa. There are no plans for the locomotive. In its place, the Museum operates a 2-truck Shay logging locomotive, number 3, ex-Crown Zellerbach acquired in 1974. No 3 is operated along the Museum tracks in the summer. The Society provides the operating crew and uses its caboose, ex-CP 436436 and Car 27 to carry visitors behind the engine.

We are currently restoring a Canadian Pacific Railway baggage cart for display at our CP railway station and would like to determine the proper colour to paint it.    Norm Baxter, Town of Virden Manitoba

Canadian Pacific usually painted their baggage carts tuscan red (it matched the stations). A few may have been painted a dark green. (Thanks to Ron Ritchie for this information)

Are any HR616s (Builder: Bombardier Inc) still running or have they all been retired? If retired, when?   Bruce Tiffany, Shenandoah Junction, West Virginia.

All of Canadian National's (CN) HR616s were retired (Numbers 2100-2119) between 1995 and 1998. 11 were sold to National Railway Equipment in the U.S. (2100, 2103, 2106-8, 2112-15 and 2117 & 2118. These were likely stripped for parts. The remaining units were scrapped by CN. None were preserved.

When did the last freight trains run on Canadian Pacific's Havelock Subdivision between Glen Tay and Tweed Ontario?    Jonathan Davies

The last regular scheduled freight train on the CP Havelock Subdivision stopped before 1969. The last run of a revenue train was on September 8, 1969 with CP #8771 (RS-18) with two loads and four empties out of Smiths Falls Ontario. A special "on company service" train ran on December 1, 1970 to pick up car loads of rail pulled from the Kingston and Pembroke Railway north of Sharbot Lake. Engines were 8476 (RS-10) and 4089 (FA-2). The Havelock Subdivision between Glen Tay and Tweed was torn up in 1971.   (Thanks to Bruce Chapman for the information)

What happened to the Canadian National Turbo Trains? Were they used by VIA Rail? Mike, Ottawa Ontario

Of the 10 Turbo units, five were sold by CN to VIA in 1978. VIA retired them between 1979 and 1983. The VIA units were repainted and the noses were painted in the VIA yellow with the VIA symbol. The unit by unit history: CN 125, 126, 128, 151, 154 sold to VIA. CN 127, 128, 152, 153 sold to Amtrak in 1973 but 128 and 153 were wrecked before being delivered. 128 was scrapped while 153 was repaired and sold to VIA. CN 150 was retired in 1975. (Source: Canadian Trackside Guide).

Do you have information on the derailment of steam locomotive #5702 at Kingston Ontario. Richard Hewitt, Brampton ON

In one of CNR's more spectacular derailments, the 5702 (4-6-4) on the advance section of passenger train No.15 overturned at Kingston's Outer Station on August 10, 1947, skidding to a stop outside the operator's bay window and filling the station with exhaust and water. Excessive speed into the curve on which the station was located was deemed the cause of the incident.   (Thanks to Don McQueen for the information)

Did Ottawa Ever Have a Santa Claus Train at Christmas? Lewis Miskell, Ottawa ON

Ottawa's Freimans Department Store had a Santa Claus train that lasted until 1970. The train ran on a Saturday in early December from Union Station to Vars on Canadian National's Alexandria Subdivision (the railway's line to Montreal). At Vars, it met Santa who, in later years, arrived by helicopter. He rode the train with the children back to Union Station and then went to Freimans to begin the visits by the kids until Christmas. Toronto had a Santa train as well. There have been others in connection with tourist operations in recent years. (Thanks to Bruce Chapman, Bob Meldrum, Bernie Geiger for the information)

Which railway operated the present rail-trail "Le P'tit Train du Nord" north of Montreal into the Laurentians? What year was the last passenger service on this line? What year was the line abandoned and the rails removed? Don Pevsner

Canadian Pacific Railway owned and operated the line that is now the trail from Ste. Agathe to Mont Laurier. Passenger service ended in 1981 with the extensive funding cuts to VIA in that year. The line was abandoned in two stages: Ste. Agathe to Mont Laurier, December 31, 1989 and St Jerome to Ste Agathe, July 4, 1990. The removal of rails would have begun shortly after these dates.

I have seen a model of the Baldwin Sharknose diesel locomotive painted in Canadian National Railway colours. Did CN have any of these locomotives? Mark Hendry. Owen Sound ON

Canadian National Railways never owned any Baldwin Sharknose engines. It is not an uncommon practice for model manufacturers to paint their engines in liveries (railway colours) of companies despite the fact that these companies did not purchase the particular model being produced in miniature.

Is the Goderich - Exeter Railway (GEXR) a going concern? Do you know anything about the GEXR's future plans? I saw a consist of four locomotives in the former CN yard at Goderich Ontario on January 2, 2006 that appeared to be in very bad shape. Trevor Ortbach, London ON

The GEXR is still a going concern. With the salt mines in the Goderich area, they still have a lot of business. The locomotives you see in the Goderich yard are probably older pieces of equipment no longer being used and not intended for another shortline owned by the parent company (Rail America). For more information about the GEXR visit the Rail America Internet site.

Why were CN Northerns 6103 and 6132 scrapped in 1948 while most Northerns survived until the end of steam? George Pearce, Fergus ON

On July 27, 1948 U-2-a Class 6103 and U-2-b Class 6132 were so severely damaged in a head-on collision on the Harcourt Subdivision at Barnaby River, N.B. that both were scrapped by Canadian National at Moncton. (Our thanks to Don McQueen for the answer.)

What is the standard length of rail used by maintenance of way crews when replacing worn rail? (Robert McNab, Teeswater ON)

The standard length of rail is 39 feet.

I can remember taking the CN Turbo train from Montreal to Toronto. Whatever happened to it? Is it sitting on a siding somewhere or was it scrap. John Peddle, Toronto ON

The CN/VIA Turbo trains were taken out of service between 1979 and 1983 in phases. There were 6 power units plus the 65 "Turbo Cars". The trains were constructed in 1967-68. Some survived to be part of VIA Rail and were painted with the yellow "noses" and the VIA symbol. All the equipment was scrapped. (Source: Canadian Trackside Guide)

I'm looking for historical information about the Ontario Northland Railway. Chris Carlson, Ottawa ON

At least two books have been published about the Ontario Northand Railway: "Steam Into Wilderness: Ontario Northland Railway" by Albert Tucker 1978 - published by Fitzhenry & Whiteside and "Link with a Lonely Land" by Michael Barnes 1985 - Published by The Boston Mills Press. Check your local library or an online book store to see if copies are available.

I would like to know what happened to the Scenaramic cars that CN and VIA owned in the mid 1960's toe early 1980's? Marco St-Amour, Rouyn-Noranda QC

Here is what we have on the equipment:

1. Jasper (2700) sold to Tour Alaska (7092) 5/1984; to Amtrak (9310) in 1990; to Holland America Westours (50) - "Kenai" in 12/1995. For sale in 2002.
2. Athabaska (2701) sold to Great West Tours 2/1983, becoming CNW 421 - Powder River; to State of North Carolina "Mount Mitchell" circa 1997; to "Friends of the 261" 1/2005, NSR 800862.
3. Yellowhead (2702) sold to Tour Alaska in 1983 for parts and scrapped
4. Fraser (2703) to Great West Tours 4/1983; to Tour Alaska (7091) in 6/1983; to Amtrak (9312) in 1990: to Holland America Westours (56) - "Kuik". Sold to Canon City & Royal Gorge Railway in 9/2005.
5. Qu'Appelle (2704) to Great West Tours 2/1983. Later to private owner and stored on Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad
6. Columbia (2705) to Great West Tours 2/1983; to Tour Alaska (7090) later in 1983; to Amtrak (9311) in 1990. To Napa Valley Wine Train "Champagne" in 12/1995.

Are there any cabooses for sale to the public? Patricia Morphy, Shannonville ON

We are not aware of any cabooses available for sale by the railways. They disposed of most of their caboose fleet over 10 years ago. Check the Society's Canadian Trackside Guide for a list of cabooses remaining. In Section Three, one of the private owners may wish to sell his/her caboose.

**I have two questions about grain cars:   1.  I've noticed recently that many of Canadian National's and Canadian Pacific's grain hoppers have the WX painted out from the reporting marks, i.e. CNWX and CPWX. What is going on?   2.  CN has been scrapping some grain cars. Are the railway planning to scrap the fleet?Alex Filotti, Toronto ON

1. The grain cars were owned by the Government of Canada and have been sold to the railways. CNWX and CPWX were the reporting marks used for the government and with the railways purchasing the cars, these markings had to be changed to reflect the new owners. It was a simple task just to remove the "WX" as the two railways' reporting marks are CN and CP respectively. 2. CN has been scrapping some of the aluminum grain cars which were built for the light prairie branch lines most of which have been abandoned. So the cars are no longer needed.

**A fall Branchline magazine mentioned interest in saving the CN roundhouse at Bigger Saskatchewan. Is there any way we can subscribe to a society to help restore and save that Roundhouse? - Lorne Muirhead, Kingston NS.

The Town of Biggar is spearheading the preservation and restoration of the CN Biggar roundhouse. You can contact them for more information. We aren't aware of any society involved in the project.

**Does anyone know what became of the Private Car 'Sir James'? It was originally built for the Ontario Lieutenant Governors, then passed to Andrew Merrilees and then to Conklin Shows. - Dave Keen, Ottawa ON.

The history of the "Sir James" is well documented in Doug Smith's "A Century of Travel on the Ontario Northland Railway". It states that the car was sold by ONR to Andrew Merrilees in 1967, and resold to Conklin Shows in 1971. Conklin may have operated the car in connection with his amusement business. However, it spent many years on a siding alongside the CN Oakville Sub, beneath the Gardiner Expressway at the northern edge of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds in Toronto (Conklin may have had the concession for most, if not all, of the CNE midway attractions).

It appears that around 1988 Garry Anderson successfully negotiated the donation of Conklin's ex-CPR 'Strathcona' to the Cranbrook Railway Museum. The deal included ex-CN sleeper 'Isabella'. Both it and the 'Sir James', were blocking removal of the 'Strathcona'. The cars had all been disused for some time, and squatters in 'Sir James' had set a fire in the observation room, severely damaging the car. Both 'Sir James' and 'Isabella' were scrapped on site, with the proceeds of the 'Isabella' scrapping being used toward transportation of 'Strathcona' to Cranbrook. CTG shows 'Strathcona' added to the Cranbrook collection in 1990. (Our thanks to Jim Brown for this information.)

**When did the Canadian Locomotive Company (CLC) switch from the cast diamond shape builders plate to the stamped metal plates. Also, which diesel locomotive was given serial No. 2637. - Douglas Lister, Toronto ON.

The first aluminum plates were used after Fairbanks Morse acquired CLC in 1950. The first use was for order C-621 of 9-1951 on CLC CPA16-4 demos 7005-7006. The last cast plate was applied to CT&S no.1 (#2645) shipped on 12-05-1950. See CONSTRUCTED IN KINGSTON for more detail.

CLC records show #2637 was a 50T DE-Whitcomb centre-cab built for Limestone Products no.4, shipped on 7-13-1950; the same day as un-numbered Inter-Paper #2638. They both were from a stock order previously built as a lot under order C-618. Thus the confusion about serial numbers on the builder's plates. Again, see CONSTRUCTED IN KINGSTON p285 for more history, as well as Canadian Tracside Guide 2009, p3-92. (Our thanks to Don McQueen for this information.)